A Very Rare Selmer Padless Tenor On eBay
Author: Helen
There is a very rare saxophone up for auction right now. If you’re a saxophone collector, this just might be for you.
A seller in Washington state is selling a Selmer Padless tenor saxophone. The ones that I’ve seen up for sale in the past have been anything other than pristine, but this one looks like it is in very nice condition.
Source: eBay.com
Here is how this rare vintage sax is being described:
Here is an amazing piece of Saxophone history – all original, and it performs! The serial number is 27355, indicating that it was manufactured in early 1939. It was made for Selmer by The Buescher Company and the body tube is similar to an early Big-B or Buescher 156 with the narrow bell. The lacquer is original and 98% flawless. The engraving is gorgeous and goes from the lip of the bell all the way to the bottom of the curve. The neck has never been pulled down. There are no signs of repair or reattachment of key guards, etc. It is a truly beautiful instrument and it plays – from high F to low Bb. The tone is medium-bright due to the fact that the keys act as large resonators (no pads). The leather pad-rings appear to be original, but that would be hard to know. It is the best example of a Selmer USA Padless we’ve ever seen, and deserves to be in a professional collection or saxophone museum. The original case is the ‘Pullman’ style, so called because they are wedge-shaped and fit well on the overhead luggage rack of a Pullman train car. Included is the original instrument care brochure. The small, round button-shaped form on the lid of the accessories compartment is an integrated cork lubricant container – the only one of those we’ve ever seen. Now, the caveats. The bell key felts have been replaced with cork and felt combinations – quiet and uniform. There are slight scratches and a small, dime-sized wear area near the thumb rest. There are two pencil-point pings near the neck strap ring. There are three minor pings at the base. There are two tiny blemishes on the player’s side of the bell. The exterior of the case shows some wear, however it is clean inside with no musty smell. All l;atches work. The two handles have been taped and could easily be replaced. It requires a little more finger pressure than we would prefer, to get the low notes out, and would be improved by more playing time and, perhaps, minor key adjustment. It’s a dandy! It is difficult to know how to price an instrument of this type as there are so few of them. We’ll put on a $2,495.00 buy-it-now, and see what happens.
In this photo you can begin to see the ornate engraving that was done on these padless horns.
Source: eBay.com
Source: eBay.com
Here you can see the low B and Bb key guard assembly that was like those on Selmer’s Radio Improved model. Also, note the left pinkie cluster from the Buescher Aristocrat—which these padless horns are actually descendants of.
According to CyberSax, the Selmer Padless saxophones were:
… Buescher stencils [that] had the Aristocrat body tube, but as much True Tone (1920’s) keywork as could be used, given the left bell keys.
Source: eBay.com
Source: eBay.com
Source: eBay.com
Now the seller refers to the pad rings as being made of leather, and most likely being original. This is most likely not the case. According to CyberSax, these padless horns had rubber seals. So if indeed these seals are made of leather, they were replaced at some point in time.
Naturally rubber seals break down over time. Bear, the owner of CyberSax, mentions that he has been unable to come up with a suitable replacement for these rings. If this horn is playable from top to bottom as the seller claims, then someone who worked on this sax has come up with an idea for replacement rings.
Source: eBay.com
Source: eBay.com
In the next 2 shots you can see the Selmer name, but also the US designation. Selmer clearly wanted to make sure that these saxes weren’t mistaken for Selmer Paris horns.
Source: eBay.com
Source: eBay.com
Although the seller has put a Buy It Now price of $2,495.00 on this vintage horn, at present the offers are less than half of that amount. At the time of writing there were 6 bids on this Selmer Padless tenor. The high bid is $1,061.36. The auction runs until March 17.
If you’d like to find out more about these Buescher-made, Selmer padless saxophones, check out both the CyberSax page, as well as the page about this model on The Vintage Saxophone Gallery. That will give you a place to start your research.
© 2010, The Bassic Sax Blog. All rights reserved.
sam netherland on
i bought the horn with buy it now on the16th will arrive on the 19th will let you know whatever this horn looks so good for its age as a sax player i could not pass up i have the b&s medusa yamaha62 to play so if this has leak problems ill address the issue if not ill just drool all over it if its as nice as the pictures
Hi Sam. Welcome to website.
You know, I was really tempted by this sax. I kept going back to the ad to look at it. I was going to get in touch with the owner, and ask some questions, but then in the end decided that I really couldn’t justify it. I have a beautiful, rare, silver tenor that needs a restoration, and that had to be my priority.
Thank you for posting, and letting me know you got the sax. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that it arrives safe and sound. It certainly looks like a beauty.
Stay in touch, and send some updates when you get a chance Sam.
Oh, I meant to ask, is your Medusa a tenor? I also have a Medusa, but mine is a bari. It’s the only new/modern sax I own.
Regards,
Helen
my medusa is a tenor goldbrass(they probably all are) 3 neck(silver ,goldbrass and raw brass)bought from peter ponzol who used the horn to experiment making mouthpieces i know a little about the horn but will tell you it really is a monster(and a great looker)between my yts and the b&s they are both great horns
and im actually a alto player
sam
The Medusa saxes came in a variety of finishes including silver plate, black nickel, and sand blast. They really are monster players.
I saw one in a music store in Vancouver a couple of years ago, it was new, old stock. It too had the 3 necks, and a regular lacquer finish. I really wanted to try it, but at the time I figured I didn’t need any more tenors. Now I really regret I didn’t try it out. I would probably have liked it very much.
What kind of alto(s) have you got?
forgot to mention im a x bari player,bought a windmann bari pd 800.00 a good deal? had to have repair work by my teck+the bell was bent(bought on ebay)although they advertised as new,i think it was a factory 2nd of some type low a heavy horn gheat case with rollers a real looker and thats where it ends although they advertise this horn for 3000.00 +
use to play the ole conns and use my knee for the a whats the big deal
sam
Never heard of the brand. I’d say it’s a stencil. Got any pics? Maybe you could upload 1 here with your comment, or send me a few to my gmail account: bassic.sax.ca@gmail.com
$800 for a new bari is a decent price. Now that it’s fixed, what does it play like?
the bari is a windmann not wisemann,sorry i have chemo brain last treatment coming up doing great hopefully cancer free the bari is a looker mabe i need more time and not a stock mthpce.bell dented not bad all other repairs taken care of still think the old conns were the tictet,now you can probably look up the horn sorry for the mistake
sam
still got it wrong as i stated chemo brain wisemann not will i ever get it correct?sorry
sam
now that we know its a wisemann the altos i have mk7 selmer old conn age?mabe the 30s selmer artist(ltd52)and surprise a good horn no info as to where it was made,a saxophone .com which is a stencil from all selmer horns ,old etude,has a r for a body-bell brace old horn modern look what do i know?one called modern design in usa? a helmke(white ,with gold keys) i know most of this is junk,but my junk,some play okay some do not but what the heck its fun and you never know when you find a sleeper,the artist for example it must be older model ltd52
35103
aj055as
all this below the thumb rest i had to send one back i purchased on ebay ,and it was advertised as a artist limited edition but it was made in taiwan by the thumb rest and did not say limited edition anywhere a piece of junk. i can tell you the artist i have is a heavy horn and plays as good as my mk7
if this is too much info let me know i ramble on and on
sam
No worries Sam. I’ll see if I can find anything on the Wisemann brand, and who might have made them.
I really like the Mark 7 tenor that a friend of mine has. I have never played an alto, but I suspect I would like them too. (Don’t tell anyone, or else they’ll take away my membership to the Mark VI club.)
You sound a bit like me. I too have a lot of horns. All of mine are vintage, with the exception being the Medusa bari. I decided I should get a back-up bari, and thought a low A model would be wise. It turned out that modern was the most logical way to go, and I really liked the sound of the Medusa. Funny thing is, B&S really didn’t change their baris much from their old Weltklang days. So although I bought a new bari, in a lot of ways, it’s very similar to a vintage horn. Now that’s irony! No wonder I liked it so much.
Did your padless tenor arrive yet? Or did the delivery date get pushed back? Is it OK? Did it arrive safely?
once again chemo brain strikes again i mixed up packages i was to get the package on the 19th was ups the sax is usps so it has not arrived as yet should have known since it was only shipped on the 17th probably monday or tuesday i will definately let you know ,i still miss playing bari as i played in a great navy band for 2 yrs on bari cause the other slots were taken used a berg mthpc on a old silver conn with a gold bell let me tell you i had a hard sound like frank hintner if ive spelled the name correctlt one of (to me anyhow)the hardest bari players ever
the mthpc im sure will make a big difference on my bari but they are so darn expensive now (a meyer new york alto for 2 grand)give me a break.well (chatty cathey)here i go again ,
will keep in touch as soon as the padless arrives thanks for all the correspondence
sam
still no padless in touch with sell and no later than wendsday sent me proof of mailing and insurance slip,nice guy did you go to http://www.wisemann.com for the bari,now they advertise the wts-400 as a intermediate a while back they only had the one mod and called it a pro horn interesting,but what do i know chemo brain but in my last month of treatment and no new tumors god bless had my yts 62 silver in to check for leaks did a few and man another monster ialso put my 7 in if he does the job as he did on the tenor ill let him(mabe)check for leaks on the b&s medusa
well waggle tongue sighning off still let you know about the padless sax,enjoyed the contra bass sax now your talking monster
several friends had bass saxes but sold them cause no one ever said bring your bass sax to the gig(thats funny)
sam
this is about the ligature-mthpce cover combo or all in one made in pa.pat pending,bought one like it last year on a weltkling ,hope i spelled it correctly mthpce sorry i was able to pull up once on your site but cant do it again didnt pay much and actually a great idea holds the reed firm but not tight cant see why it did not make it,but for years and years i used two rubber bands go figure,todays the day for the padless to arrive,think positave sorry for spelling errors forgot to list my tenors that i have will do later also soprano guitars piano tuba trombone baritone susaphone trombone flute clarinets man im a sick puppy
did not mention my wife is canadian(google foss h.boulton)her father me the man about eight yrs ago what a great person
see you
sam
The article you’re talking about is this one about the reed protector/ligature thingy all-in-one.
It sounds like you have a lot of interesting instruments. I don’t think you’re a sick puppy at all. But then I’m the woman with 20+ saxophones, so maybe I’m biased.
i know you tird of my ramblin misspelling cant get names right and so on but HELEN the sax just arrived it played right out of the case granted needs tweeking i dont care for 1939 (she) is in great shape glad i used buy it now the seller is a great ebayer great sound iused a meyer medium chamber 7m so far .like a kid at CHRISTMAS sure a few very small dings (small)tlc is my middle name and shes a light horn i like that the upper register screams and i just started man i made out for a changehope i have answered question ok selmer padless alive and well
sam
Hi there Sam. That’s great news my friend!
I’m very happy that your new sax arrived safe & sound.
Don’t ever worry about your misspellings, ramblings, or anything else. I’m very glad that you found me here. You can come for a visit anytime, and never worry about your chemo brain. I can relate. My medication for the nerve pain I suffer from, and the constant state of dizziness I’m in because of my neurological problem, allow me to understand a little of what you experience. I suffer from a type of “cognitive fog” some of the time. We make a team you and I.
Keep on playing my friend. And do keep visiting whenever you feel like it…helen
I’ve only seen one example of a paddless saxophone in my life. I saw it in a community band and was playing next to the woman. Didn’t think much of it at the time (6 or 7 years ago).
I’m still wondering if the play with the same tonal qualities as a regular saxophone would have. With that being said it must be hard to find any cork replacements, making this a do-it-yourself horn.
tonal quality is the same didderent mthpce different sound with harder or softer reed combo.upper register sound is a hard coltrane,and im not comparing myself to mr.c in anyway.as far as replacingthe rings ill work on that but a person who worked for b&s saxes did padless for them and is now on his own(wolf codera)so im sure there is an answer out there especially now in our computer age only 1200 selmer padless as i understand 1937-41 so im sure the rubber seals have been upgraded to who knows what.my horn does have a few leaks but so do i and over all shes a bute bought for 2500.00 and think right now as she sits worth about4500.00 she is a beauty and fun to play thank you for the question
sam
helen,no more chemo.still playing the padless ,great sound,using a rico mthpc 2 1/2 olivera reed gets the job done the selmer artist ltd52 has no mfg mark do you know where it was made as i once said this is a sleeper sax and has a big sound but im easily impressed keep in touch
sam
Hi there Sam.
Good to see you back. That’s great news about you finishing your chemo. I’ve been wondering how you were doing. If you hadn’t stopped by soon, I would have sent you an email to check in.
I’m a bit confused. You’re asking about which? The mouthpiece or the sax? Do you only use the Rico mouthpiece on your padless? Or do you have a Selmer mouthpiece as well?
thats me,always confusing the issue.the mthpc (rico)is used on the padless, the sax i am asking about is the selmer artist.it is a ltd 52 and does not say where it was made unlike the new ones that are made in tiawan the 52 is a great horn and for the price i will tell anyone to buy but still do not know much about the model but as i said its a pro horn(at least to me)let me know if you find any thing out.it is a older model.thanks for the reply helen good hearing from you.keep up all the good work your doing
sam
Well Sam, you have an ability to dig up the really obscure saxophones. I really like the Selmer padless you recently bought, but with this one, I’m going to have to disagree with you. I hadn’t heard of this model Selmer before, so I assumed that it was one of the Conn-Selmer USA models, so it would be made in Taiwan. After doing some research on the sax, I found the only references for them were on Dominic’s website. He was selling a new and a used alto. Because there were no other references that I could find on the Internet, I started to get suspicious. If these were indeed Conn-Selmer USA horns, why are there not more of them on eBay?
I searched through Sax On The Web, and even there, there were only a couple of references to Selmer Artist ltd horns. What I found there was a bit all over the map, but quite a few people were very unhappy with their Selmer Artist saxes. However, what really made me sit up and take notice was this thread, in which it was mentioned that these saxophones have no connection to Conn-Selmer USA at all, but rather were knock-offs. If this is true, then I’m surprised that Dominic hasn’t been swatted by Conn-Selmer USA.
Obviously your horn works for you Sam, and in the end, that’s all that counts. However, I would caution anyone thinking of buying one to be very careful. It is very unclear what you are really getting. If these were indeed built for Selmer-USA, why are there not more of them around? I would just advise a potential buyer to do their homework, and play test the sax before plunking down their hard-earned cash.
Sorry if that’s not the information you wanted to hear Sam. I actually feel quite yucky when I have to write stuff like this. But like I say, if the horn works for you, then really that’s all that counts. For example, for some, the Martin Handcraft is an antiquated, ergonomically challenged piece of vintage scrap, but for others, it’s their holy grail. In the end, the sax is just a tool. It’s what we make with it that counts.
helen,sorry i have not replied sooner.no more chemo lady,so things are looking up.thank you for the research on the selmer ltd.52read some where this was there attempt at a less expensive copy of the old mark6 i am not dissapointed in any way with your remarks love to hear from you let me say if a sax player can get his hands on one they will not regreat doing so .still visit your site and tell all my fellow sax players about you.the old padless is still honkin away and have found no replacememt pads,although i havent looked that hard.so many saxs out there and so little time but its fun is it not?lots(at least to me)of bass saxs lately on ebay thats one horn im sorry to say i have never played,probably a good thing the way i collect.stay in touch helen
your sax friend sam
Hi Sam. Thanks for checking in again.
Did you happen to see the B&S Codera model tenor on eBay that I mentioned a couple of days ago? It used a system very similar to the Selmer Padless, however did so from Eb down to low Bb. I was very tempted to bid on the sax, but in the end decided to let the sax pass. I will keep my eyes open for a B&S Medusa instead I think.
Yes, there certainly have been a fair amount of bass saxes on eBay lately, but most of them have been new ones. There is only that beautiful restored & refinished Buescher that represents the vintage horns.
Glad to hear that you’re still doing well. Take good care of yourself Sam. Talk to you soon…helen
i bought a b&s cordoba a few years ago on ebay and sent it back due to the fact the bell was dented and not advertised,no problem getting my money back but was dissapointed ,pd$2000.00 so the one advertised to me was a great buy.i was watching on ebay and it did not sell,could not afford to buy so i offered a trade of some sort within the laws of ebay i would not violate there rules cause i buy too many items saw a medusa alto actually 2 on ebay but the one by peter ponzol looked like a good dear i bought my medusa tenor from him did i mention i have the selmer artist soprano and its another sleeper same as the alto only ltd.53
13005
aj016ss
all this is just below the right thumb rest came with the straight neck only and no case$400.00 picked up a curved neck$50.00 and a selmer case $25.00 also meyer usa mthpce and rovner lig once again i will tell anyone to get this horn it is a player and great intonation
keep in touch and your blog is still#1(these horns cant be a clone,and have to be selmer great feel no sharp edges and solid)
never say never though right? your sax bud
sam
Yes, I’ve seen some of the Medusa and Peter Ponzol B&S stuff lately too. I’m not in the market for an alto, but I’m always (well almost always) in the market for just the right new to me tenor. I have a rule for my tenors though. Any tenor I get can’t sound like one I already have. That’s why I’m reluctant to buy one on-line–unless it’s something completely different like a B&S Medusa or the Codera that was just listed–because I need to hear what the sax sounds like compared to my others.
For me, I see my tenors much like a painter sees their pastels or paints (or in my case it would be crayons!)
The horns each have their own unique tonal palette, and no 2 of my tenors are exactly alike. As a matter of fact, I’ve chosen my tenors very carefully to ensure that they are quite different from each other. I carefully choose the right tenor for whatever show I happen to be playing, and for whatever band I happen to be playing it with. Increasing my tenor count just gives me more crayons for me to colour with! 
The new Max Keilwerth-made Hohner President that I bought just a few days ago is the darkest of all the tenors I have. I can’t ever see myself getting anything darker. It is a beautiful looking and sounding sax. Truly a piece a fine art, as well as craftsmanship. Now I just need to get my jazz band back up and running, because I see (and hear) it as the perfect jazz horn.
Be well my friend…helen
helen,that darn b&s codera is back on ebay for$1300.00 starting bid and no one bid last time im tempted but already have the padless wish i knew if that spare set of resoblades(pads,whatever)would work on my sax i did contact him for a trade as i told you have a 2006 buffalo $50.00 proof gold coin i was willing to trade recently sold for over$1400.00 on ebay but he said he needed the cash,i can understand that.i like the latest tenor you purchased with the dark sound that other b&s also showed up again so many horns such little time(money)doing great here and hope you are too
sax bud
sam
hello helen,as usual your webb site is great almost 2+mths without chemo,life is good,as i probably told you i have infoed a lot of friends about your site please keep up the great work your sax bud
sam
Hi there back at you my friend.
You are such a great cheer leader Sam. Thank you for your kind words.
I’m so glad to hear that you’re still doing well. My wish for you is that it keeps on that way!
Take good care…helen
its me again,thought i would say hello and am alive and well,have no new saxophones think i am saxed out,still lots of horns out there but cant own them all.i have a great golf club collection,so if you know of anyone who wants to trade their sax for some of my golf clubs or putters let me know.i knom,im a mess
your sax bud
sam
Hi Sam. Good to hear from you.
I know about that “all saxed out” feeling. I’m that way at the moment too… Although there is a horn that I am somewhat interested in. It is an alto, and I don’t play alto very much, but it is a collectible, so… I might very well give in to temptation.
Apparently I’m a mess too.
I’m glad you checked in. Keep doing well my friend.
Take good care…helen