Questions & Suggestions
If you’ve got a question, and you’re not sure where to ask it, you can ask it on this page via a comment. If I don’t know the answer to your question, I’ll do my best to research it, and get as much information as I can for you.
Photo by M. Margison. Photo effects by H. Kahlke ©2008
I get all kinds of questions sent to me via email. As time permits, I’ll get some of those questions that get asked often, and the answers to them of course, posted here as well.
Also, if you have any suggestions for future blog posts, I would love to hear them. Feel free to post your ideas here, or drop me an email.
Perhaps you have a vintage horn with an interesting history that you’d like to tell people about. I’m always open to having you tell your horn’s story on my website. Just get in touch with me, and we’ll figure out the details.
Photo & photo effects by H. Kahlke © 2009
© 2009, The Bassic Sax Blog. All rights reserved.
sam netherland on 
Chris on
I get emails regularly from people who are looking either for a particular model of saxophone, say for example a Yamaha tenor, and think I might have one in my “inventory”, or who are wanting to buy one of my saxes that are pictured on my main site.
Most times it is because the person looking for a horn is coming from another country, and doesn’t speak or read English as their first language. Web-based translation programs do have their limitations!
Question:
How much is the ____________ you have on your website? (Fill in the blank with any of my personal horns from my main website.)
Answer:
Hi there. Thank you for your email. I am not a dealer of musical instruments. I am a professional player and teacher only. These are my personal saxophones, and are not for sale.
Question:
I’m looking to buy a bass saxophone. Could you please advise me where to buy one?
Answer:
Well that depends on what you’re looking for. If you’re looking for a new horn, and want to buy a high-end saxophone, there are of course the usual suspects of Keilwerth & Selmer. Eppelsheim of Germany will also be happy to build a bass saxophone for you, and for some extra money, they will also add a Low A key. (Eppelsheim would be my choice for a new, high-end bass, but heh, that’s just me.)
On the more economical side of things, there is certainly no shortage of new, Asian-made bass saxophones available. International Woodwinds, Orpheo, I&K, Mason, and even no-name brand Chinese horns appear on eBay regularly. (Although I’m not a big proponent of buying a sax you can’t play-test, especially an expensive one like a bass, from a foreign dealer on eBay).
Another maker of new bass saxophones is J’elle Stainer of Brazil, although I don’t know for sure where they fall in the price category. I believe they are mid-range somewhere, but I may be off on that. You’d be best off to contact the company, and ask them directly.
If you’re looking to buy a vintage bass saxophone, I’d suggest you become a member of the Bass Saxophone Cooperative. (The link is on the right side of this page, and is listed under Forums.) The Bass Sax Co-op has over 375 members from around the world, and there are usually always 1 or 2 members that are either selling their bass saxes, or know of someone who is.
Another good place to check is Vintagesax.com. (The link is also on your right, listed under Vintage Sax Repairs & Sales.) Gayle often has a bass sax in stock, or knows where to get one for you.
Stores like Sax Quest & USA Horn also often have bass saxophones in stock, so they are worth checking out as well.
My last choice for bass saxophones would be eBay. As much fun as it might be to window shop on the site, with eBay, you really don’t know what you’re getting, unless you’re buying from a known dealer such as Quinntheeskimo, who has an eBay store.
Most of the horns on eBay, and basses are no exception, need extensive work, so it’s always safest if you count on an overhaul in the budget when buying a horn through the auction site… And on a bass, that type of work really adds up fast!
Bottom line… Take your time. Shop around. Don’t be in a hurry. The right horn will come around for you. You do have to do your homework upfront however. Know what you want. And if at all possible, play test the sax before you drop your hard earned money down on something.
I want to purchase a clip on microphone for my tenor and alto saxophones. Since I don’t have the $$ for a wireless set-up, can I buy just the clip-on mic?
Also, do i need any thing else, or can I just plug the cable from the clip-on microphone into the bands PA system?
Hi Steve. Welcome to site.
Well, that depends what you’re talking about. Yes, you can buy a clip-on microphone that has a cord and plugs into the PA system. For example, the Shure Beta 98H/C has a 10 ft. long chord with an XLR connection.
I haven’t checked them out recently, but I seem to recall a number of years ago those mikes did cost quite a bit less than the entire wireless set up… It would make sense that they still would.
However, if you were to buy the wireless version of the same mike, it would not be usable without all the other wireless components.
For a wireless system to work, you need 3 components: 1. An input device, which in this case would be a clip on mike, that provides the audio signal; 2. A transmitter, which for a horn would be a belt pack, that converts the audio signal to a radio signal and sends it out via an antenna; and 3. A receiver, that converts the radio signal back into an audio signal again. If any of those 3 components is missing, no amplification for you!
For a good intro into the world of wireless, check out Shure’s Introduction to Wireless Systems page.
I hope this has helped clarify some of your questions. Has it?
Some clip-on mikes are condensers, since they are so much smaller and lighter than dynamic microphones. Unfortunately, this also means they need phantom power. This is not a problem when purchasing a matched wireless set — follow the instructions and it should Just Work. It might be a problem if you’re buying a microphone alone.
If you know what phantom power is, and if your gear supports it, you don’t need any more advice here. If you don’t, or don’t know if your other gear does it, more research is required.
It may be necessary to add a box that provides phantom power for the microphone, and that may well blow away half of the cost savings vs. a wireless setup. It also would mean you need a battery to run it, which might be one of the reasons you disliked wireless in the first place.
Really good points Mal-2.
As you can see Steve, when you make the switch to a clip-on microphone, there are a number of things to consider.
There are always 2 things I recommend people do when thinking about buying new gear:
1. Do as much research as you can on-line. For this kind of thing I would suggest you check out the Sax on the Web Electronic Equipment section. There are lots of threads about mikes, both condenser and dynamic types, and threads explaining the differences between the 2. There are a lot of players there that are also sound guys. They know the ins and outs of this type of gear really, really well. You can ask questions there. Since they have no vested interest in selling you anything, you should get an honest answer to your question.
Besides Sax on the Web, just Google: condenser versus dynamic microphone; condenser microphone; dynamic microphone, and variations of those searches. This should give you pretty good introduction to the topic of microphones in general.
After the on-line research has been done, the other thing I recommend a person does when considering buying new gear is:
2. Go to a brick and mortar store and see in person what you’re thinking of buying. Talk to a knowledgeable staff person to get their input. While it is true that they want to make a sale, if they are good, and care about their job, they should also be trying to figure out what your needs are, and be able to tell you what the best product is for your needs.
If you’ve done your homework up front, then the words they’re likely to use, won’t be foreign to you.
I always advise people to go to more than 1 store. Go to as many as you can, and talk to as many sales people as you can. Take notes. By the end of it all, the products, their recommendations, everything, will be blurred together, and trying to unravel who said what, about which product, will become almost impossible.
My last piece of advice when it comes to buying gear, and this is basically for electronic gear like this, and if you’re a novice when it comes to electronic gear, is that it is always better to buy everything as a set, to make sure that everything is compatible. This also ensures that you have all the pieces you need, and you’re not missing anything. (This ties in to the point that Mal-2 made in his comment.)
Buying used is an option, but be very careful where and from whom you buy it. I bought my wireless unit from a friend, so there was no risk to me. We tried it before I took it home, so I knew everything worked well.
If you have someone in your life that is knowledgeable about sound, getting their input and help would be very valuable.
My personal preference would be to buy new, because this way I know what I’m getting hasn’t been abused.
Microphones are delicate creatures, and can easily be damaged. Because I know how Ray looks after his stuff, in my case, buying the wireless unit, wasn’t risky, but from someone else, I wouldn’t have known what I was getting.
See what a can of worms you opened Steve, by asking about clip-on microphones? It’s not quite as simple as clip it on, turn on the power, and play. A lot of research, thought, and time goes into the process ahead of time. And as Mal-2 said, if you’re buying just a mike alone, you have to know what you’re plugging it into, and what it supports.
Hope we haven’t confused you too much. Take each piece of information 1 chunk at a time, and you’ll be OK. It’s a lot to digest if you’re new to it.
I am looking to buy my first saxaphone (alto) and am presented with these options. Selmer Bundy, Marcus Martini, Glen Edwards Signature, and Yamaha YAS-23. Which is the better horn? Thank You very much for your help.
Hi there Sean. Welcome to my website!
Well “better” is pretty subjective, so I’m not sure I’d want to say which is a “better” horn, but from the 4 choices you list, there are a couple of better bets in the mix.
Let’s start off by saying that the Selmer Bundy and the Yamaha YAS 23 both would be used horns of course, since neither of them is currently in production. If both of them are in good repair, or can be purchased for a reasonable price before any necessary repairs are done (get them checked by a repair tech first), then either of them would be a known entity.
Some people, like me, learned on a Bundy. Others learned on a Yamaha.
Yamahas are very good student model instruments that keep their regulation (adjustment) very well. They hold up to the rigours that beginning players might put them through, extremely well. They are solid instruments, and I recommend them highly to my beginning students.
Bundys too are good, solid, student model saxophones. They tend not to keep their regulation as well as the Yamahas, but are none-the-less very reliable saxophones for beginning students. They are heavier then the Yamaha, but are ergonomically not quite as friendly. Some people however like the sound of the Bundy better.
Now with regards to the Marcus Martini and the Glen Edwards Signature saxes, neither of them is made by a well known saxophone maker. They are Asian-made instruments of unknown origin. Neither saxophone has any kind of reputation, at least not a good one that I managed to find on line. I did find some very negative players’ reactions to the Martini brand, but nothing other than advertising about the Edwards horns.
Both the Martini and Edwards brands are what might be called stencil horns. They came about because someone contacted a company and said something like this: “I’d like to order 500 alto saxophones with my name on them”.
The problem is, unless you’ve done your homework upfront, and even if you have there’s no guarantee, that as the brand name owner you’re not getting 500 pieces of junk with your name them. Quality can vary wildly from factory to factory, and even order to order.
There has been a fair amount of discussion recently both on my blog & in its comments, and on the Woodwind Forum that I am the saxophone forum moderator for, about the quality of Asian-made saxophones. Although we were talking specifically about bass saxes, the exact same things apply to the smaller saxophones as well.
To check out my blog posts & the comments on the subject, just go to the post on the Mason bass saxophone. You will find the links to all the previous posts in the second-to-last paragraph.
Perhaps over time the quality of Asian-made saxophones will improve. However at this time, it is still like a game of chance. You pay your money… You take your chances. You never know what you’re going to get.
So to take this all the way back to the Bundy and Yamahas, if either of those horns is in good condition, and has been checked over by a technician, then you’re getting a “known” entity. This in my mind, is always a safer, or better way to go, when making your first investment in a saxophone.
I hope this has helped somewhat. If you’d like to ask me any more questions, please do. Or drop me an email if you like.
Regards,
Helen
Thank you very much for your help.
I believe that starting out I should go with a “safer” or “known” entity so that as I struggle through the learning process I am only fighting my own ability and can rest assured in the instrument.
I do not have enough money to purchase an instrument outright, I have made rather a mess of my credit and don’t think I can finance one, so I have found an online source for rentals that allows you to apply 12 months of rental fees towards the purchase price of the horn. They have the YAS-23 for $1,499 and the Bundy for $1,299. The horns are “serviced” prior to being sent out. I am seriously considering renting from them. The site for the rental service is saxrentals.com.
I also found a new horn on saxaphone.com for $439 it is their own brand and model AS-100L. That is probably the only horn that I could afford outright. My other option is to dig through pawn shops and not be sure of what I am getting. I am leaning towards renting and then purchasing the YAS-23 but if I knew that the AS-100L was a decent horn at all I would probably buy that.
I don’t feel that going through pawnshops and getting an unknown in terms of condition is a wise choice for me.
Again thank you very much for your help.
May God bless you.
Sean
Hope this catches you before you do any research on my behalf. I have decided that I can afford to buy a YAS-23 off E-bay. I think that is the way to go .
Mmm…Lots of mysteries on those pages you mentioned Sean. I’d be cautious. Where are these Selmer Bundy saxes coming from? Same question for the YAS 23. Neither saxophone is in production. Neither saxophone ever had a high F# key.
Re: the AS-100L from saxaphone.com, well my comments about Asian-made horns from unknown manufacturers, in unknown countries of origin apply to these as well.
As far a buying a horn off eBay is concerned, it too is not without risk. Horns online are not always as they are represented. The seller may either unintentionally, or intentionally misrepresent the condition of the instrument. Or, the sax may get damaged during shipping.
In either case, when a person buys a horn on line, they always need to factor in repairs, when calculating the cost of a “new to them” saxophone. I actually wrote a post about this a while ago. Although I wrote about vintage horns in my post, some of it applies to newer, student models as well.
Check your email in box, I sent you some info.
I think that even with the cost of repairs, an eBay YAS-23 will be quite playable for far less than $1,500. I’ve seen them go for as little as $300, and it’s not going to cost $1,200 to overhaul it.
I have a Yamaha student tenor (21, not 23) and a Bundy alto, and the Yamaha is mechanically superior, no doubt about it. It is also a fair bit thinner, so it won’t take a beating with as much forgiveness as the Bundy, but if you are willing to treat it like the delicate and expensive little machine it is, you should be fine.
You might want to look at Jupiter too. You can get a 1990’s JAS-767 for not terribly much money, and it has keywork more like that of the Yamaha than the Bundy, but is heavier and thicker and generally more “tanklike” than the Yamaha. It also will be more forgiving of mouthpiece choice, which I find to be a shortcoming of my Bundy. My JAS-767 is damn near indestructible, and it is reasonably well behaved with any mouthpiece I care to put on it. It also has some features that were considered “high end” at the time: a high F# key, and an articulated low C# linked to the B/Bb. The latter can be added to the Yamaha without too much trouble, but the high F# is pretty much something the horn either has or doesn’t have. It’s not a bolt-on option.
The biggest shortcoming of my Jupiter alto is that it has poor lacquer. This means that although it has not a single dent, it still looks very “used” — more than it should for 19 years old. However, this is purely cosmetic and has not adversely affected the performance in any way that I have been able to detect. However, I’ve seen some that have had no such problems, so you may well find one that looks quite fresh. Since changing lacquer formula doesn’t require re-tooling a factory, they may well have improved it along the way.
Also, check Craigslist for your city. This has the huge advantage of being local, so you can go see what you’re getting before you commit to buying it. If you don’t feel qualified to judge, drag along someone who is.
Sorry, I should correct myself here — what I have is technically not a Bundy, it is a 1970’s Buescher Aristocrat. The difference is in name only. Aside from the engraving on the bell and the badge on the case, they are the same. Even the cases are the same beyond the badge.
For the record, I paid $200 for the Buescher, and that was before the economy tanked. I did the repair work myself (except for the dents, which I left — the metal is far too hard for me to get the dents out) but it wouldn’t have cost more than another $200 to whip it into shape. Your mileage may and probably will vary, but if you are considering a Bundy, you should also consider its separated-at-birth twin.
Hi Helen!
I am a Swedish blog reader, a fan of your site, and an amateur tenor saxophone player. I have recently started playing the soprano as well, on a borrowed horn (a Yanagisawa Elimona, IMHO a really nice-sounding and “forgiving” instrument), so I am now looking for a used soprano. I wouldn’t buy an instrument without play-testing, but I happened to stumble on this (on Tradera, a Swedish auction site, really an ebay branch): http://www.tradera.com/auction/auction.aspx?aid=98491333
Here is a rough translation of (the main points of) the seller’s description: “I am selling a soprano saxophone that I received as a gift four years ago. I don’t have time to fix it. It is not playable at the moment, needs fixing. I was told it has new pads (can’t tell if the work is well done). Cork at the top is missing – sold without case and mouthpiece. Really beautiful instrument, probably old.”
I emailed the seller and asked about the stamp on the bell (since it is not readable in the photo), and his reply was:
UNIVERSEL
SAVANA
PARIS
1137
BREVETÉ
248-840
I can’t find anything online on Universel saxophones, so I was wondering if you could tell me anything. The thing is, I think it looks a little weird in the photos, but I’m not sure. Does it really have all the (left and right hand) palm keys, for instance? And how about the left pinkie keys? Seems there are just two rods going down from there. I don’t think the seller would be able to answer these questions.
The reason I’m considering this at all is of course the price. The bidding starts at 800 SEK, which is about 100 USD, and there are no bids at the moment. But if it’s not playable at all, even that is a little more than I willing to pay for it as a piece of home decoration …
Thanks in advance,
Helena
Hi Helena. Welcome to my site.
I’m sorry it’s taken so long to approve your comment. I didn’t find it until just now. I’ve been travelling, and just logged in to check up on what’s been going today.
I will have to do some more checking on the brand Universal, since I haven’t heard of it, but I did take a quick look at the photos. I would not consider this a vintage saxophone. I suspect this is an antique instrument. Although the photos aren’t great, and I didn’t take too long a look at them, you are correct, there are some keys missing. The right side palm keys are only 1, instead of the usual 3. The left palm keys, look like only 2, so it appears the horn is keyed only to high Eb.
The sax also has no rollers, and no mother of pearl on the key rests, which may further speak to its age.
I am however looking at these photos on a friend’s really old monitor, so the colours and images are even worse than they would be on a good monitor. I will look into this more tomorrow when I’m back home.
On the up side, there are still no bids on the sax, and the auction runs for a while a come.
One thing I can tell you for certain: If you want a modern sax, this isn’t it!
Thanks for stopping by.
Regards,
Helen
Thank you so much for taking the time to look into this, Helen! Seems my suspicions were justified, then … The question of the brand name is intriguing, though!
I should have mentioned this before Helena, but I think you have a great name.
Well from the checking I’ve done, there are a few people out there with these saxophones. If you do a search on Sax On The Web for Universel Savana, you will find 14 threads as of this afternoon. Most of the posts were older, and were from people looking for information. Very little concrete information was offered up.
After checking multiple search engines, and finding varying bits and pieces of information, much of it contradictory, I finally
went to my “go to person” when I get stuck. I checked with Pete Hales, the man formerly known as saxpics, and he confirmed my suspicion that this might be a high pitch horn. Therefore not really usable in modern settings.
Pete said the following about this particular sax & the brand in general:
So I hope this answers your questions a bit Helena.
If you’re looking for a horn to play with a band, this would not be my first, second, or even third choice. As much as I love vintage horns, and use them everyday, I would not buy this with an eye to playing it with others.
As I mentioned in my earlier comment, this would most likely be considered an antique saxophone. From all the research I’ve done, it is rather questionable whether or not it is even worth restoring. One would have to see the sax personally to make an informed decison on this I think.
I’ve included a photo of the sax now so everyone knows what we’re talking about.
Thank you so much for investigating this so thoroughly for me, Helen! Seems like this might be an interesting horn for an instrument collector, but obviously not the right choice for someone who needs a playable, reasonably reliable soprano! Thanks again for helping me out!
You’re quite welcome Helena. I’m glad to have been able to have been of some help.
Good luck in your soprano saxophone quest. There are lots of soprano saxophone brands out there to choose from nowadays (compared to say 20 or so years ago). Honestly, if you are looking for a “forgiving” instrument, your best bet might very well be a modern used intermediate or pro level soprano by a well known company.
Sopranos are a fussy horn, and you really should get a good brand, with a proven track record to avoid having intonation problems (among other things).
Feel free to drop a comment, or send me an email, if you’d like to get some further ideas.
I have an Adolphe Sax silver alto S/N 642XXc. It is situated at the base of the body tucked away behing the bell. Does anyone know where I can find out about it, value, history, age? I am not having any joy through internet searches. Thanks for any help offered
mil
Hi there mil. Welcome to my site.
Well it appears what you have there is a Selmer Adolphe Sax saxophone. Selmer bought the Adolphe Sax manufacturing plant from Adolphe Sax’s son around 1928. Selmer then went on to produce a line of saxophones bearing the Adolphe Sax name.
The only thing that is missing on the picture you provide, is the serial number on the bell. However, on the photo at least, it appears that there might have been some buffing that took place. So is it possible that the serial number was removed by someone before you got possession of the horn?
While at first blush this all seems correct, the fact is, the engraving on your horn is a bit different in the design details then the examples that I’ve seen. I have a book with some Adolphe Sax horns (both originals and Selmers) in it, I just have to find it in my mess of a studio. Perhaps it might shed some light onto this.
In the meantime, let me ping someone else and see if he’s willing to take a stab at this as well. Maybe we can get you some answers to a few of your questions.
Regards,
Helen
Hi mil.
In case you didn’t see Pete’s response to your question about your sax, I just wanted to make sure you realized that you did get a response from him. (Pete originally created, owned, and wrote the content of the Vintage Sax Gallery [Sax Pics] before selling it to USA Horn.)
This is what Pete said:
It does seem you have a bit of an enigma here. You can always email me some more photos if you like. Those always go a long ways in helping unraveling mysteries.
my sister just gave me a selmer mark six tenor sax. it was my uncle’s. he played it in vietnam in the army. i play guitar now but played clarinet through high school. (it was not cool then) i would like to play this. it has tarnish spots in various spots all over the body, but has no dents in it. the keys all seem to work. i live near buffalo, ny. the serial number is m124XXX. engraving on the bell. all original except black button for thumb rest.(should this be brass?) tried to look up age. think it is 65 or 68. mom says he bought it in 68. he died in 75.
i was wondering what information you can send my way? i would like to get it in good playing shape. can i just take it local, or send it out. ANY info will be appreciated. thanks, mike
Hi Mike. Welcome to my site.
Check your email In box. I sent you something. It’s quite important info, so I want to make sure that you get it, and that it doesn’t go into your spam folder by accident.
If you’ve been doing any research on the Internet, you will have quickly realized that the Mark VI is one of the most sought after saxophones out there.
The black thumb rest is original on the Mark VI, so have no worries. Given your horn’s serial number, it was made around 1965. Selmer’s serial number charts are a bit off, and some variations have been published on the ‘Net as well.
There is no reason that a local tech in around Buffalo couldn’t look after the work that needs to be done on the sax. I would suggest that you check out the Technicians Directory on Sax On The Web (SOTW). Use the Search This Forum feature and enter Buffalo repair technicians or a couple of other combinations to go along with Buffalo.
If you don’t find anything, you can always start your own thread and ask for some input from the players there. There are bound to be players from Buffalo who can point you to a good repair tech who is good with vintage horns, because that’s really the key. You don’t want to take this sax to just anyone. You want to take it to someone who the pros trust with their horns.
As far as finding out more about Mark VI saxophones, there’s a lot of info “out there”, and you’ll find a lot of it on SOTW. However, much of what is “out there” is just flat out wrong, or so slanted one way or another, that it really doesn’t give you a true picture. A good primer on the history of the Mark VI was written by Pete Hales, when he still owned the Vintage Sax Gallery. It is at least accurate, and is a pretty fair assessment of the horn.
Hope this has been somewhat helpful. If there’s specific stuff you want to know about your sax, or the Mark VI in general, ask away. I myself have 4 of them (soprano, alto, tenor, and baritone) and have played on them for 25 years now. I’m quite knowledgeable about the model, and my Mark VI tenor has been my primary horn for most of that time.
The thing to remember is that each instrument was handmade, and no 2 are going to be identical. Also, we’re talking old instruments now, and all of them have been kept differently. So when you read peoples’ reviews of them, they are basing their reviews on something that has been rebuilt (or not) by a tech. And the sax can only play as well as its condition, repairs, & set-up, will allow it to.
I know I’ve thrown a lot at you all at once. Take some time and dig through some of the stuff I gave the links to. Ask any questions that come up for you.
Regards,
Helen
wow, thank you, thank you, thank you. you are the first one i have contacted, and great help. i will follow up on this and (i am sure) will need more help. so glad i came across your site first. i just noticed(from recpt’s in the box) that the same person serviced this sax that serviced my clarinet when i was a kid. again, thank you, mike
I’m glad to have been able to be of some help Mike.
I went to SOTW, and was actually going to see if there were some techs listed in the Buffalo region, and if there weren’t, I was going to post a question and get some recommendations. Then I saw you had already done it, and had already received 2 replies. (BTW, both of these guys have been around a long time, and know their stuff, so I’d trust their judgement. One of course is also a tech himself.)
SOTW has some really knowledgeable people on it, but like anytime you get a group of people together, there are bound to be some not-such great folks that like to act out destructively. The trick is figuring out who’s who, and who’s info you can trust, and not.
So while I recommend SOTW as a resource, I also do so with a cautionary note. The community over there is very big, so be careful who you listen to. In the beginning, don’t just take everyone’s word at face value. If in doubt, you can always email me, or send me a private message through SOTW, because I’m a member there. (My screen name is Helen. Not very original I know.) I’ll be happy to take a look at the discussion and give my 2 virtual cents input as well.
@ Mike B: If J&J Woodwinds is still around — I think that was in really far north Orchard Park or something like that (it’s been only about 25 years) — you might give them a shout. They used to do the repairs for the Buffalo Philharmonic. I had them overhaul a Conn New Wonder tenor around then and it was inexpensive.
TenorMadness.com or Sarge at WorldWideSax.com can probably do a bang-up job, as well. They might give you a repair guesstimate if you’ve got good pictures of any damage/what you’d like fixed.
And a VI is a nice horn. They do vary in quality, as Helen mentions: in my experience, it’s been “excellent” to “most excellent”
.
@ mil: I’ll just copy myself from my old website:
“Around 1928, Selmer bought the Adolphe Sax manufacturing plant from Adolphe-Edward Sax (the inventor of the saxophone’s son) and produced a line of saxophones — released primarily in the UK — as a ‘complement’ to the Super line of saxophones (s/n 11951 to 18700, and possibly up to the first Balanced Action horns [s/n 21751]).”
So, your date range is approximately 1929 to 1935ish. Value is a bit less than a Selmer Super in the same condition (after all, it was an “complementary” model).
The serial numbers — either of them — should be under five digits. Again, quoting myself: “In both cases, these horns have a Sax serial number on the bell and a Selmer serial number under the low D key or on the body near the thumbrest.” While YMMV, of course, I’ve not heard of a 6-digit serial, epecially one with a “C” in it.
Thanks for the info Pete! But I want to know, where did you get all this stuff from? Everything I dig up always points back to you.
Oh, I know… You could tell me, but then you’d have to kill me.
“Around 1928, Selmer bought the Adolphe Sax manufacturing plant from Adolphe-Edward Sax (the inventor of the saxophone’s son) and produced a line of saxophones”
Wow… I knew saxophones were sexy, but I didn’t know they could actually REPRODUCE!
What does this saxophone’s son look like? Is it a sarrusophone? Rothphone? Tubax?
Given what’s been going on in my studio over the last week with my exploding tenor population, I’d say that they’re very good at reproducing.
I’d say it’s time to get them some condoms so that they can practice safer sax! 
Groan… 
Lamest sax joke in the world I know, but I’m suffering from caffeine withdrawal.
A lamer joke is to prank a sax player by putting a condom over the small end of the neck, putting the mouthpiece back on, and tearing off whatever part of the condom might give away the tampering. It’s right up (down?) there with a penny in the clarinet barrel, or potato in the shank of a brass player’s mouthpiece.
Now I think that’s funny. But then we’ve already established that I’m lame in the humor department.
Have you ever seen this many basses at a concert / public event?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZbGOAXkknI
You can delete this if you want to. It’s a link to YET another bass saxophone on ebay. This person wants $18,200.00 for it.
The price is a little high don’t you think. It is in original condition according to the webpage.
Nah, I’ll let you have this one.
Thanks for pointing it out though. I don’t check eBay everyday, so missed it…
Although at the cost of this bass, I don’t believe it will be scooped at the Buy It Now price before auction’s end. Having said that however, do you remember this Lyon And Healy fixer upper that sold for $7,877 in September of this year? While the other hand, this beautiful gold plated Buescher bass took 2 kicks at the proverbial eBay can before it sold for a mere $5,257 just 2 months earlier in July.
Despite what someone may have paid for the L&H handyman’s special, yes this Buescher’s price tag of 18K is apparently not grounded in reality. However, as a wise man once said (and I’m paraphrasing here): A vintage horn is worth what a seller and an informed buyer can agree to in price.
To me, I wouldn’t agree to 18K (nowhere near that) for a non-stock, vintage bass, that doesn’t have a case, and that has been fitted with Noyaks (or tone boosters, as they call them). Don’t get me wrong. I love Noyaks, and as a rock and blues player, I see the value of them. But I certainly wouldn’t pay that much extra for a horn, and then have it come in anything other than absolute stock, mint condition right down to the keys for the locks on the original case.
Heh, but that’s just me. I’m picky.
Very true, I’m picky about horns too. I don’t believe I’ve mentioned them all to you.
1945 C.G.conn soprano sax 6M, almost mint condition (rarely played)
1922 Martin Handcraft, lots of lacquer off of this horn, but plays amazingly well.
1925 Martin Perfacktone, 99% of original silver plating and is still in the process of being fixed (by me.)
1919 Buescher True Tone alto sax, bare brass with clear lacquer, almost mint. Very playable.
1915 c.g.conn C Melody, mint condition, 100% silver plating. (I’ll post a pic of it.) Everything is original with this horn, only two owners.
1915 Buescher True Tone C Melody sax, 100% silver plating, on the keys there is some purple lacquer ontop of silver (not sure why it’s there.) No Neck, trying to find one.
1999 Yamaha YTS-23 Tenor sax, lots of scratches, been played a lot. sounds great
1972 Selmer Baritone sax Series II 99% or lacquer (gold w/ silver keys) plays wonderfully.
1915 c.g.conn bass sax, relacquered by me, sounds great, I overhauled it almost 2 years ago and lacquer is still good.
1917 c.g.conn bass sax “Metro”, gold lacquer 95% still on, plays even better than the previous bass. I adjusted the C-side-key to play better.
1909 c.g.conn bass sax, 100% silver plating. Is in the process of being fixed by me for free. Takes a little longer for it being free. Has a gold wash bell. Only needs a little polishing.
NONE of my saxophones are for sale!
I am getting a rothophone soon and hope to have it by tuesday,
This is a really great collection of vintage horns Chris. I notice you’ve got a couple of modern ones in the mix too. BTW, I assume you meant a 1992 Series II bari. I can correct that if you like.
I am most curious about your roth. I hope you tell us all about when you get it. Every since playing that alto one last year, I fell in love with the rothophone. I would love to get one.
Unfortunately your next comment with a pic of the gear didn’t have a photo attached to it, so I just deleted the comment. Please post it again. I love gear shots.
Really enjoy your site!I won that la fleur alto on eBay today,I am a disabled man,play a yts 23.I got a music medic sax repair kit for xmas and am going to restore this old “hammmerscmidt” and probably keep it as a player.I got it for 200usd including shipping!I think this is a bargain.I will put a set of pads with flat metal resonators on it and go to a local shop to try various mouth pieces.I will post some videos of the resto at you tube”mranglosaxman” and pics at SOTW “oversaxedman”I had picked up a 10m that turned out to be a real nightmare,body was twisted,full of copper corrosion and was just too big of a project for me to tackle,sold it on eBay 15 minutes after listing!This alto is more my style a good clean,pads,corks and maybe springs,may even restore the original case(have a background in upholstery)
Best for new year,Kevin
Hi Kevin. Welcome to my site!
Congrats on the horn. I was very tempted to bid on it myself, but then when I saw that the price was over $100, I decided against it. I have too many altos already.
This horn is a real head scratcher. While I am 95% convinced that it is a Hammerschmidt, it might be something else. If I had been personally interested, I would have contacted the music store and asked for more photos.
We know that Le Fleur was an importer of instruments to England, and as such sold all kinds of brands under the Le Fleur name. Boosey & Hawkes is the brand most often associated with Le Fluer I believe, but I’ve also seen Conn tenors with the Le Fleur name.
If I had asked for more photos, I would have asked for shots of the engraving, and of stamping of the country of origin. I would have also asked specifically for photos that show the octave vents on the body of the sax. (In other words, photos of the right upper side portion of the saxophone body.) Hammerschmidt used 3 octave vents on their horns. Two on the body, and 1 on the neck.
While the Hammerschmidt connection is a very probably one, this Le Fleur does bear a striking resemblance to a Hüttl tenor that was sold on eBay a number of years ago. It too was said to have been manufactured in England. (BTW, Hüttl had many of its saxes stencilled by Hammerschmidt as well.)
In any event, I’m sure that you will enjoy the experience of rebuilding the horn. It will be very different to the YTS-23 that you have.
Would you be willing to send me some up close photos of the sax when you get it? I would really appreciate it. I would like to know one way or the other if it is indeed a Hammerschmidt, or if it is something else.
Again, welcome to my site Kevin. Drop in from time to time and let us know how things are going.
Regards,
Helen
Looking for help with mystery saxophone. My father-in-law acquired a very old saxophone that had been sitting in someones attic near Austin, Texas for at least 35 yrs. No known history before that except belonged to his grandmother and not sure how she acquired it. Anyway, this is either a tenor or alto sax, brass with worn lacquer finish. Some silver accents with mother of pearl keys. Came in a black Buescher case with deep purple velvet lining and interior label that says Parker and Houston. Rest of label unreadable. Only markings on saxophone are Italy with a # 18311 above it. Both are stamped under the thumb rest. The bell does have some very beautiful floral design etching(looks more stamped into horn than etched) but not as large as you would see on an old Buescher or orsi. Middle of etching says La Rue. Also included in case was a neck piece with an unusual lower bar, Selmer mouth piece with decorative handcarving around the base, brass mouth piece cover and leather neck strap. Cannot find any detailed info on this and nearest music store not much help. Came across your site while hunting info and hoping someone here can shed some light on what we’ve got. Starting to feel like I’m
. Sure would make an old man happy! Thanks for any info offered.
Hi Alice. Welcome to my site.
It seems that you’ve done some research already, so I’m sure you already know that you have a stencil horn on your hands. Since there were a number of saxophone manufacturers who all made a variety of stencils, not to mention, there were some strange hybrid horns that seem to contain parts of a number of different brands, this sax you mention could be one of a number of different animals.
If it’s an alto or tenor is easy to identify by the shape of neck, and the overall length of the horn. Is the neck straight, or does it have a bend in it (otherwise known as a goose neck)?
The best thing to do, if you’d like me to give you some accurate information, is to send me some photos. Take a look at this page on my site, for a guide of what the photos should look like & include.
Send the photos to my gmail account. This way you don’t have to worry about making them smaller.
Oh, about the Selmer mouthpiece you mention, it is what is commonly referred to as a scroll shank mouthpiece. Selmer stopped making their mouthpieces like that quite some time ago. Depending on the facing, and the condition of the piece, it might be worth more than the sax to some people. You’ll want to take very good care of it, and not let the tip get damaged. What is the letter on the mouthpiece? They’re usually stamped with something like C* or D**.
I hope this has been somewhat helpful Alice. I’m looking forward to getting a few pictures of your sax. (Don’t worry about getting all the photos I show on my page, or exactly like I’ve shown them.)
Regards,
Helen
Yeah! There is hope. Thank you so much. The mouth piece has an E only, with Made in France under it. The center of the Selmer stamp is slightly worn but can still make out what it says. The design on the bottom is very clear with no wear there. Over all it is lovingly used but perfectly intact. No chips or cracks. I will send pictures Fri. if all goes well. Thank you again for your help oh great knower of all things saxophone!!!! So glad to have found you! Can’t wait to unfold the mystery.
Does some body know about Saxophone mark ” KENT ” made in Italy, i hace it but i can`t find nothing about it in internet, date made and nothing,,, it have a Brilhart ebolin mouth piece, HEEEEEELP
Hi there. Welcome to my website.
Well, you have a stencil saxophone there, but you might know now this already. I have not heard of the stencil name Kent before, but that doesn’t mean much. There were lots of small companies that could have hired any one of a number of Italian companies to manufacture a saxophone for them.
I would need to see some more pictures of the other parts of your horn to properly identify the manufacturer. Check out this page on my site to give you an idea of the kinds of pictures that would be helpful. You can send the pictures to my gmail account, this way you don’t have worry about making them smaller.
Hope this helps a bit. Once I’ve got some more photos, I’ll be able to do some research and hopefully be able to give you some more information.
Be in touch…helen
PS: I just checked my email. No worries, your pictures are there. I need some pictures of the left side of your horn, etc. I think I know what it is, but the left pinkie table, octave lever, and some of the other things I mention on the page I provide the link to, will confirm this for me.
Hi Gabriel.
I sent you this in an email, but in case someone else ever looks for a horn stencilled with the name Kent, I’ll post my response to you here.
From what I can tell of the photos, it appears that you have an Orsi stencil of their professional model saxophone. The letter that starts in the serial number of the saxophone E43XX, is the first clue that it is an Orsi saxophone.
If you compare your saxophone to the LaMonte Superior that recently sold on eBay, you will see that they are very similar, if not identical.
Orsi made a great many stencil saxophones for different companies. Although I had not come across the name “Kent” until now, that doesn’t mean much. Many small companies could have ordered a small number of saxophones from a large company such as Orsi over the years. Orsi has been around since 1836, so they have a very long and distinguished history.
There are no published serial number charts for Orsi instruments. I have also not come across any information that indicates whether or not stencil horns from Orsi follow the serial numbers of the Orsi name. If you are interested in finding out more, you could always contact the company and ask them if they have any records about their stencil saxophones and years of production. You would have to let them know what brand you have, and its serial number.
I hope this has been of some help to you.
Regards,
Helen
Hi Helen,
I have been busy working on the La Fleur Alto.A few more springs and my pads will be here this week.I am getting excited about getting her to play!No luck in the investigation into its origin.I did not get replies from either Keilwerth or the shop in Ireland that sold it originally.I am thinking they got my emails in there “junk” with attachments delete delete?I am a little concerned right now it may be high pitch.All I can do is put pads on and check tuning.I have a fellow on www looking into it Matt Stoher.Any tips you may have would be appreciated.I have some new HD pics I can send you.
Thanks, Kevin
It will be interesting to see what Matt Stoher comes up with. I got your pics. Thanks. I’ll forward them to Pete & see if they help him any more.
I’ll forward you what he wrote up until now & then I’ll post it it under the La Fleur’s actual article of December 23, 2009.
I have posted an update to the La Fleur page. It includes Pete’s thoughts, and some updated ones of my own.
Hi Helen,
I sent some pics of the “Le Rue” mystery sax to your g-mail acct as you requested but not sure if you got them. Let me know if you need me to resend or any additional pics needed. Thanks so much!
Hi Alice. Yes I did get the pictures. Thanks. I haven’t had a chance to look at them though.
I’m slowly catching up from a ton of emails that I’m buried under. I’ll try and start do a bit of research on this sax over the next few days. I’ll drop you an email when I get something.
Regards,
Helen
Don’tknow if this has anything to do with the saxophone that she’s talking about. Would it have any engraving (After-market) that says Le Rue on it?
http://www.cyder.demon.co.uk/lerue.htm
does it have any other numbers / names / enscriptions on it?
Chris,
Sorry, my bad, actual spelling is La Rue, but appreciate the link. I intend to send the band some pictures. Think they would get a kick out of this sax. I posted earlier on this blog with more details to decription if wish to review. Only other markings are ssn#? 18311 w/Italy stamped underneath. Both of these are located under thumb rest. Can send you pix if you would like. Have plenty.
Helen,
Glad you got pictures. No worries, do understand, just so thankful for the help. Looking forward to what comes up. Thanks!
Hey Helen,
Wanted to give you an update on the La Fleur.The re build is coming along well and of course with surprises!The tech at Tom Lee found that the bell/body brace was pushed into body.He did a great job getting it out and the dent on the bow is 95%,the guard for the low c was in way.He soldered the body where the bell brace attaches as a precaution,real nice job.A new rod for upper stack was fabbed and all posts aligned and other rods straightened.I leveled the key cups and have dry fitted,shimmed and shellacked the pads in.I have burned one and tore a hole in another but all in all it has gone well.I have decided to wait to leak test after I finish installing all the springs.I will finish with new corks and felts.I managed to play a few notes today and have posted a 30 second video on You tube,mainly to check pitch and it is low!!!I can hardly wait til I can play it when done the tone is nice and projection!!I think this is a wailing Sax!!Find my videos at youtube”mranglosaxman”
Kevin.
Hi Kevin. Thanks for the update.
The pushed in bell/body brace damage is not really surprising. It happens a lot in shipping, or if the horn is dropped in its case. However in those cases, it’s usually that the brace is pushed into the bell, rather than the body tube. In any event, it has been fixed, and that’s good. It’s really a quick fix in the overall scheme of things, and doesn’t leave any lasting problems. I’ve had more than 1 horn that that has happened to over the years.
Do you have Stephen Howard’s new book yet? The Haynes Saxophone Manual: Choosing, Setting Up and Maintaining a Saxophone, is without a doubt the most useful book I’ve seen on the subject. I believe you can order them now through Amazon.ca. I got mine directly from Steve a few weeks ago already. IMO, it is a must have for all serious saxophone players. I strongly encourage everyone to buy the book.
I haven’t had a chance to check out your video, but will later today. But I’m looking forward to getting together with you and seeing this mystery sax for myself. (And giving it play test too.) I’m sure you’ll have a good time trying out some of its cousins that I have… Vintage German horns from the same era, but different manufacturers. These are all very good instruments, some of which are seriously undervalued however.
Oh and yes of course, my bass will enjoy getting out of its case for a change. It misses the regular action it saw when I lived on the East Coast.
Stay in touch, and good luck in the rest of your repair work!
Hey Helen,
Browsing German E bay today and saw a beauty New King Silver Tenor,if you get a chance to look at it I would like your opinion.I have been wondering about my Yamaha,it dies when I try to push it hard or is it my Berg?90/2- I have tried putting more mp in my mouth,seems to allow for larger projection.The options today compared to when I played 30 years ago in School are immense,so many choices,horns,mouthpieces and reeds!That New King is the same as the Bundy special I almost bought for 800(10m instead)this one on German E bay looks like 1500?Trying some different combos might answer some of my concerns.
I got the springs today!I have just the upper stack to re spring and I am well on my way to finishing the La Fleur possibly by the weekend if I get the other pads in mail.
Hope you are well,
Kevin.
I checked out the horn Kevin. It looks really nice. It’s kinda’ weird that the seller didn’t put a reserve on it. No, it’s not 1500 Euros, it’s 14.50 Euros. In Germany, they don’t use a decimal point they use commas. So what I’m seeing right now is 14,50 EUR. Theres 4 days left on the auction, with only 7 bids on the sax. Very strange.
As far as the YTS-23 and your Berg goes, it could be all kinds of things. I’d like to hear you play it, and then I’d be in a better position to figure out what’s going on. It could be m/p & horn conflict, or bad reed. Or all kinds of stuff.
Yes, there are a ton of different combos you can try, but that opens the door for G.A.S. But when it really comes down to it, the reed/mouthpiece is the beginning of the equation. The 23 is a good, stable horn. We can go through some of my mouthpieces, and give them a go too. I’m pretty sure I can figure out what’s going on.
Bergs in general, tend to “break” when pushed. That has been my experience with them. As a bari player in a rock band, nothing was more frustrating than that. That was what made me switch to the Rico Metalite when I worked in electric environments.
I have an app’t in Burnaby on Friday in the early afternoon. Maybe we want to get together after that, if you’re free. Let’s talk. I’ll call you tomorrow.
Hello friend
My name is Michael, I live in Brazil … I was looking on google for pictures of bass sax, I found your blog … very interesting! congratulations for the work to publicize this wonderful instrument!
good, I decided to send this message to you for a reason, I think you made a mistake, the sax that these two photos, I think it’s a baritone sax with low G adapted and not a sax with a low G. low. .
Bari sax on this one thinking,
http://bassic-sax.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/saxbaixo4-500×725.jpg
http://bassic-sax.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/saxbaixo5-500×725.jpg
I came to this conclusion repair the curve of the neck, notice how different the sax 2 w / anterior neck this:
http://bassic-sax.ca/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/instrumento6-500×729.jpg
I’m sorry if I’m wrong … and also sorry for the mistakes, I speak very little English! I used a Google translator!
THANK
Michael
Hello Michael. Welcome to my website!
You are correct. I didn’t look closely enough at where the neck comes out of the upper bow. The bass saxophones that Lopes converted, like the one that I played, has the neck lower than the horns that I’m showing as being the bass.
I used the Google translation too, but I used it on the Lopes website. I should have paid more attention to what I was looking at.
Thank you for catching my error. I will correct my posting.
I hope you enjoy my website. I hope you’ll find other things to comment on as well. (I hope they won’t all be mistakes.)
Hello Helen,
Thanks for the welcome!
thank you for answering! and although we agree on the photos!
yes and like much of your site!
I am completely in love with bass sax … I played a bari sax for almost 10 years the church which I am part of the orchestra, now play a contra-alto clarinet but soon I intend to fulfill my dream of playing a bass sax … this desire I already have it since I started playing the bari, but here in Brazil was VERY difficult to find good bass sax … today we have J `Elle Stainer is an excellent instrument … I want to buy a J`Elle Stainer soon!
Thanks again!
see later!
Michael
ow, I’m sorry!!! I forgot to mention that I’m talking about the bass sax with low G this link:
http://bassic-sax.ca/blog/?tag=jelle-stainer
I saw a soprano sax on ebay the description says “This is a silver plated soprano saxophone. I don’t know who makes it unfortunately. I have a serial number 052674. I had it inspected by our stores professional repair tech and it needs no work done. Pads are good, it has absolutely no dents, comes with good condition hard shell case and everything pictured in it. Feel free to ask me anything and if any of you knowledgeable consumers happen to know the maker please let me know. This instrument is in perfect playing condition and ready to blow. I have no reserve on this item.” the current price is 58.00, and there are 2 days left, i want to know if i should bid on it or not, and if i’m getting ripped off, or not.
Hi Braden, welcome to my site.
Well any instrument for that little amount of money is always a gamble. You could get lucky, or you could get the beginnings of a great lamp. Sopranos, especially, are hard to pin down, because generally speaking they tend to play more out of tune than the bigger saxes, so to get a good one, you have to pay more. For example, a $500 soprano will not play nearly as well in tune as a $1500 one. A bit of a stereotype, but you get the idea. Having said that, since we don’t know what brand it is, it’s hard to make any kind of educated comment.
Is this a new horn? By that I mean a modern saxophone? Or is this a vintage horn? What’s the eBay item #? Or just paste the link to the auction in your reply. If I can take a look at it, then maybe the photos will tell me something.
I played a surprisingly good curvy sop being sold by the same guy as the Mercury tenor (“richardsaxross” on eBay). It was in the $800 range, and both sound and intonation were quite good. It was also very pretty, and heavily engraved. It had been built to spec without high F# (or G), so I suppose it was not too surprising that it felt like a vintage horn but with modern keywork. If I had had the money and had not been buying the tenor, I probably would have bought the curvy.
You don’t have to spend a fortune on a good soprano, but it helps to either be able to play it first, or buy from a reputable importer like Kessler, Phil Barone, or Viking Instruments.
hello there!!
I just want to know, is possible for me to learn and be able to play a sax now?? I am 21years please help thnx
Hi gimmo. Welcome to my site.
Of course you can learn to play sax. There are lots of people that have started when they’re much older than you.
I think perhaps you might want to get hooked up with a teacher in the city where you live, and get their help. That is always a good first step. What do you think?
Helen
There is a good chance you could get a student to give you some lessons, I’m sure they could use the money!
They don’t necessarily have to be music majors, but the music department of the local college is probably still a good place to start.
21 is not too old. Many people have started later. If you have any musical training at all, you shouldn’t suffer too much from the late start (except that you’ll be more aware of how BAD you are at first).
Hi,
I have a tenor sax ORSI (Milano). Only inscription is E 1898..in good shape and average condition..
Can you tell an estimate range of price for sale?
Thanks
François Corbel
Hello François. Welcome to my website.
You have an interesting tenor saxophone there. I believe it is the first non-antique Orsi that I have seen, that is silver-plated.
Since you are saying it’s an Orsi, and not mentioning a stencil name, I’m going to go with the assumption that it is an actual Orsi. Based on the photo, it does not appear to be one of Orsi’s professional model saxophones. Those tended to have circular bell to body support ring, rather than the straight bell to body brace. Now this catalogue is older than your saxophone, and the models may have changed. However, based on the serial # you provide, it fits with the Orsi stencil horns such as the La Monte and the Henri Lavelle that we see fairly commonly. As a matter of fact, the Henri Lavelle tenor in the post I linked to is serial # E26XX, so is very close to yours in age. (If indeed, as it appears, Orsi used the same serial number system for its name brand and stencil horns.)
You ask how much the horn would be worth if you were to sell it. The answer is: unfortunately not very much. Orsi saxophones do not command a great deal of money. Even their professional models do not bring in much cash. This professional alto was listed for $175, and was for sale for quite some time before it finally sold for $145.
I have an article on my website that can help you determine the value of your sax. Check it out. I have not been tracking Orsi sales recently, so I’m a bit out of the loop, but if you read the article, it will give you the tools you need to determine the approximate value of your sax. The fact that it’s silver, might add a few dollars to the value.
I hope this been somewhat helpful to you. Let me know if there’s something else you’d like to know.
Regards,
Helen
I have a slight dillema, maybe you could help me out with.
This is the story, I recently purchased a Selmer Reference Tenor that I thought had more pad life than it turned out, thus I have had to get an overhaul. I really liked the horns feel and sound when I tried it out and the seller told me it had atleast 5 years of life on the pads; my mistake for taking his word instead of having it checked out. Anyway I’m into this horn for 3,500 + 725 for an overhaul, I’m sure I’m going to love this horn, but I hadn’t anticipated having to have an overhaul on the horn, and funds are tight; this is where my dilema comes in, I have a 1926 Martin Tenor Silver Plated like yours 745XX
which is clean and still playable, it gets a great big lower end sound. I thought I might try to trade it in for the overhaul, or sell it. I am sort of attached to the lush low end sound of this horn so I keep going back and forth whether I should just bite the bullet and just keep both. If I were to trade it for the overhaul do you think it is a reasonable trade more or less, or would it make sense to sell it for more and if so how much would be reasonable.
I know ultimately I’ll have to make the decision myself but sometimes it is helpful to get further insight from others, there you go— Help
Ken
Hi Ken. Welcome to my site.
Well it sounds like you’ve got yourself a bit of a dilemma there. You’re right of course, and only you will be able to decide what’s best for you. For me, well I never sell anything… Well almost anything. I have sold exactly 2 horns in 30 years, and have acquired many more than that, so you know what I’d personally do. I’d keep the Handcraft. (This coming from the woman who just bought another tenor yesterday taking my to a total of XXXXXXX. Oops… It appears the censors got a hold of that last sentence.)
Seriously, I girl can never have too many pairs of shoes… Or saxophones…
OK, seriously though, back to your questions… Yes, there is something about the Handcraft’s sonic qualities that the Selmer will never come close to. Of all my tenors, the Martin is very unique in its sound. No other tenor I have has the depth to its tone… Although my Zeph comes close. If you do sell or trade it, you have to ask yourself are you going to regret doing so? Will you miss that low end? Because I guarantee you, your Selmer, while being a beautiful horn with a great sound, will never have the presence your Martin has. But do you really need 2 tenors?
As far as prices go, I don’t know what they’re currently really selling for. I quickly fired up eBay and found and unlacquered specimen that had had a recent repad that sold for $912.00. Then I also found a current listing for an unlacquered one that still needed a rebuild with a Buy It Now price of $599.00. You’d have to check some of the on-line dealers and see what, if anything, they might have in stock. Handcrafts are not easy to find, so be prepared to spend some time searching.
I don’t know if you’ve seen this, but I’ve done up an article that might be helpful in helping you determine what your sax might be worth.
I don’t know if anything I’ve written here is going to be helpful to you or not. Good luck in your soul searching. It won’t be an easy decision.
Feel free to check in again if you want to bounce ideas off some more. You can also email me if you like.
Regards,
Helen
Thanks for your input, and I think I would miss having the Martin available, so I’m going to keep it as my alternative tenor.
Take care, Ken
FWIW Ken, I’m glad you decided to keep the Martin. I agree that you might have missed its sound after a while. I love my Mark VI, but there are times when the Martin is the horn I use.
I always pick a particular tenor for a particular job, based on the sound it has. There are times when the Martin is the sound I want.
I hope your Reference 54 repad turns out well. Then you’ll have 2 great horns to choose from…helen
Hi Helen.
I bought a Kohlert Modell 1927 (V.Kohlert’s Söhne) soprano the other day. The low actave key is missing otherwise it’s a nice sax. I hope that I can get an octave key made. This is my first Modell 1927.
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view¤t=kohlert1927001.jpg
When I took of one key I saw that the pad is screwed tight. No adhedsive or shellac. Never seen this before.
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view¤t=kohlert1927002.jpg
Do you know more about the Kohlert Modell 1927 saxes?
Thomas
Hi Thomas.
You know, I’ve not heard of the Modell 1927 from Kohlert. I have a PDF of an old Kohlert catalogue on my files I could dig out to look, but I have a funny feeling that it’s newer than your sax.
You know who would know? Pete, the man who used to own saxpics. He’s always been very interested in Kohlert saxophones. Let me send him an email and ask him to take a look at your comment. Do you happen to have other photos that you can upload? If not, no problem, but just in case they might be useful I thought I’d ask…helen
I’ve heard of the Modell 1927. I’ve just not gotten any pictures of them.
Considering that the Modell 1926 and Modell 1928, which I had lots of pics of, are variations on a theme, I doubt that the Modell 1927 is that much different.
All of the VKS-made horns until about 1935 are almost identical to Conn New Wonders of the same year — VKS even produced an F alto. In 1935, VKS came out with the right-side bell key model with the funky “VKS” keyguards.
I did have some fairly decent Kohlert info at http://www.saxpics.com/kohlert, but please note that that page doesn’t like Java anymore. You might have to go to http://www.saxpics.com/?v=mod&modID=90, instead. I do have some pics at http://208.95.77.77/thesaxinfo/gallery3/index.php/Kohlert and a pre-1930 catalog, if you’d like, too.
Thanks Pete. I could have cited the same pages, but I thought it was better coming from the horse itself.
I did not know about the F alto. Very interesting… Kohlert was a very interesting company at the time.
Hi,
Here are some pictures of my Kohlert sop Modell 1927.
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view¤t=kohlert7juni2010007.jpg
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view¤t=kohlert6juni2010.jpg
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view¤t=kohlertjuni2010005.jpg
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view¤t=kohlert2juni2010001.jpg
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view¤t=kohlert3juni2010002.jpg
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view¤t=kohlert4juni2010.jpg
http://s297.photobucket.com/albums/mm201/thomsax/?action=view¤t=kohlert5juni2010004.jpg
Thomas
The pad mounting system on your soprano reminds me most of a closed-hole flute (as they still are made today). As for finding pads, you might want to look into pads for snap-in Buescher saxes. Even though you have a screw that fits inside the post where Bueschers have a snap that fits over the outside of a post, the principle is not all that much different.
Some people also buy pads with no resonators and use a punch to put a hole in the middle.
Helen,
I’m going to take some photos tomorrow and upload.
Mal-2,
Maybe Roopads without resonators can be an alternative? They are white/grey, in the same style like the orginal pads. I “recycle” the resonators and the screws? But I think I’ll use some “clear bathroom silicone” in the padcups to prevent moisture and dirt to go under the pads. This is harmless both for the player and sax! I have done this on an old Beuscher. The pads are set into silicone.
The big task on this sax is the missing low octave key! The seller (same guy who has the Klingsor wreck) has another Modell 1927 soprano and he promised me that I can “borrow” his octave key for making a new?!?
Thomas
Hey Helen, just stopped here to say that I found something interesting I didn’t know about. Every once in a while I’ll go through Benedikt Eppelsheim’s website to see if he’s got anything new cooking and today I noticed he did. A new C soprano! I was kind of surprised by this move and even more surprised that I hadn’t heard about it from anyone.
Hi there Tropic.
Yes this new C soprano was chatted about on the Woodwind Forum when it was first talked about publicly. Actually one of the people that comments here regularly, Gandalfe, owns one. At least I think he does. He ordered one in December ‘09, so I assume he got it. I checked his blog, and didn’t see a review or anything since he would have received it. I can ping him, and ask him to update us here on if he got it.
Yes, I was surprised to see Eppelsheim partner with Reese (from International Woodwinds fame) on a C soprano built in Asia. But if you read the Woodwind Forum thread, you’ll notice that according to Groovekiller, who owns a number of Eppelsheim’s big horns, and has a few of his videos on the Eppelsheim site:
I’m not convinced of the commercial viability of these saxes, but hey… What do I know? Time will tell if the product stays on the market for the long term I guess. I suspect that there will be/was an early rush of orders, and then it will trickle down to a very small number that will be ordered over the long term. (If there is a long term.)
I should write a review of the C sop sax by Benedict Eppelsheim but I decided not to because it is a challenging instrument for me (a hobbyist musician) to play above the first D above the staff (D3). Groovekiller, who is a pro has no problems playing the instrument into the altissimo range.
That said, I have a completely refurbished Conn C sop, also a straight and the inherent intonation and keyworks ergos are scary bad. In contrast, I can play the Eppleshiem instrument to replace an oboe part in a heartbeat as long as I don’t have to go too into the altissimo range.
This Eppelshiem didn’t cost that much and I love the quality of it with many adjustment screws, superior ergos and redesigned bore and pad sizes. I would argue it is the best C soprano available today bar none.
I have a 1915 Conn soprano sax that belonged to my dad. It’s in reasonably good shape, all keys pearled and working. I was wondering what value a piece like this has?
Hi Jim. Welcome to my weblog.
Well I have 2 articles on my website that might be helpful to you. The first deals with assisting readers in determining the value of their vintage saxophones. If you’re looking for more information about your horn, you will find this article interesting. This one will also be helpful if you’re not sure what condition it’s really in, and need some help in determining that, in order to determine its value.
I hope this has helped. Let me know if I can be of any more assistance.
Regards,
Helen
I
Hello, Do serial numbers for “script” horns, ie: Selmer New York made by Buescher, fall into the manufactures production tables or was there a special listing? I’ve come across a silver Bari sax with a back stamp which reads: 43889 LOW PITCH LICENSE PAT. DEC 8 1914, according to Bueschers serial lists, this horn would date 1918. I’ve learned the patent refers to the drawn tone holes and it would seem that the smaller holes are drawn. Do yo know when Buescher started adding spit valves because this horn doesn’t have one? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Jon
Hello Jon. Welcome to my site.
The short answer to your question is “no”. Serial numbers for stencil horns, that is horns made by one company—in this case presumably Buescher—for another, in this case Selmer, generally do not correspond to the serial number charts of the manufacturing company. I have not found any serial number charts for Buescher stencil horns anywhere.
I am not entirely sure when Buescher added spit valves to their baritones, and given that this is a stencil, it might not be representative of the latest & greatest that Buescher had to offer. In other words, not all the latest bells and whistles were put on all American stencil horns.
To get an answer to your question about spit values, let me ask Pete Hales to chime in with an answer. He probably has the date, right down to the month,
memorized.
Hi, Helen
I enjoy your blog a lot! I’ve been dreaming of a bass saxophone for a while, and though I’ve taken every possible chance to hear anybody play one I’ve never seen anybody clean one. If it’s not too unaesthetic a question, how do you clean those monsters?
Regards,
Franz
Hello Franz. Welcome to my site.
When you say “clean” do you mean the inside? Or the outside? The outside is just like any other sax—there is just more of it! Having a silver plated saxophone can be a pain.
If you mean the inside, most bass saxophones made after 1921 or so all after water keys, or spit valves, like baritones do. The condensation, because just like in a regular sax, there is very little saliva, accumulates in the first lower bow of the pig tail. The spit valve will drain it very effectively. Because the pig tail is so long on bass saxophones, the pads generally never get wet, and are unlikely ever to need replacing due to getting hard and being no longer able to seal, like those in a conventional sax. When I got my 1922 Buescher in 2000, Paul told me that if I looked after the pads well, I would likely never have to have the horn repadded in my lifetime.
There are pigtail cleaners available for baritone saxophones. These bari snakes would work on a bass because the pigtail is so so long that the upper bow would never accumulate any gunk. This would apply to both American style as well as short wrap, French style saxophones, like Selmer makes.
I personally don’t eat anything, or drink anything but water when I play, so I never worry about accumulating anything in my horns. I don’t use a bari snake, and only drain the condensation—and the little bit of spit—out of my baris and bass during playing and afterwards using the water key.
So I hope that this has answered any questions you might have Franz, about cleaning these behemoths.
Thanks for this visit, and I hope you drop in again sometime. Ask anything you like.
Best regards,
Helen